Load as Guide and Evolver System Proposals

Started by jflat06

mimi Lv 1

True or not, the perceived situation in Evolver of a number of people in a team taking the opportunity to gain a good ranking in a puzzle by doing an easy evolve has been with us for some time. This is reinforced by the rankings for each Evo puzzle usually having blocks of each team rather than a random mix.

There has also been the situation of the number of points awarded for each place below first varying widely between puzzles according to the numbers of players able to actually achieve an evolved solution. It has frequently been said that Evo ought to be scored differently from Solo.

I like infjamc's idea of points awarded being dependant on your contribution to a solution but that would be very complex, especially where the solution may have been passed back and forth between players. I think that a system of scoring which awards you an amount relating to your score as compared to the top score would be an improvement on what we have at present IF it can be implemented easily. There are much more pressing problems to be addressed.

As regards the Loading as Guide question - I should prefer not to see it thrown out in all cases because of the advantage given for design puzzles. Either make it unavailable in those cases or as Mark says, let us do those unrewarded. Perhaps that might result in a greater number of options being explored with more chance of finding a GOOD soln as opposed to a HIGH SCORING soln.

krulon Lv 1

I respect you all and all of your opinions. Foldit is an experiment and will be subject to some growing pains. As Rav3n_pl and others have pointed out… We are all members of the same "Foldit" team.

auntdeen Lv 1

If you as devs think that throwing all "load to guides" to evo in that type of puzzle, works best for you, then do it. I suspect that it doesn't do much of anything except protect the soloist board for those. If you then have to "fix" evo for that type of puzzle only, because you have shifted the problem from one board to the other, then do whatever complex scoring you have to do to make it fair to all. IMO, simply disabling load to guide for only that type of puzzle would simplify things better than doing something that just moves the problem to the evo board. Or as Mark said - have us do these without points (the fact that you give these more points than normal seems to have backfired).

Both personally and as a team admin, I would not like to see "load to guide" disabled for other types of puzzles, for the advantages that others have already pointed out. Other than a design puzzle, loading to guide & trying to band to it may be a good exercise, but is rarely successful in resulting in a better soloist score all on its own. So I see no reason to change it for any puzzle other than design.

Personally, I do not care one hoot what you do with the individual evo scores. Most experienced and/or good folders don't care, either - and I'm taking this from conversations in global and other conversations with not just my team but members of other teams. Most experienced folders know that the solo scores are the ones that count in the community's eyes.

But as a team admin - I care very much what you do. Not only is the evo scoring relevant and important to new or returning folders to practice their skills (and pump up their self-confidence), but there are many puzzles in which hard work results in one team or another surpassing another team's soloist or evo from soloist.

Please note that the hard work usually takes the form of banding, hand builds, searching for an offbeat or unusual or older script. Occasionally, it will take the form of walking something to death, when there is a very tight race.

If you set up a system that penalizes the "whatever" number of individual evo scores within a team, then you will have the danger of two likely outcomes: the better folders on a team will hold back or not even load an evo, so that their teammates who really want to do evo can - and/or you set up a strong competition within a team instead of the friendly one that now exists.

If you set up a system where the rank comes from number of points of improvement from the soloist upload, then for sure soloists will do a quick starting wiggle, then upload. Not much point in that. If you think that squeezing out another couple of points from a very walked evo is worthless, please take a good look at the scoreboards for the last couple of months - there have been instances of teams squeaking by other teams by doing just that.

Please be very sure that "fixing" this "problem" of individual evo scores does not cause worse problems. Most folders have lived with the system, as imperfect as it may be, without much complaint, simply because the team folders who stay (with the exception of a very small minority) move on from caring about their individual evo rank, and focus their skills on providing the best solo for a team.

gramps Lv 1

I think this counts as a variation on Pletsch …

At close of the solo round soloist points awarded, everyone's tracks (including soloist) become merged evo tracks.

Share-to-group is closed to new uploads, new Share-to-everyone is opened, limit of one upload per folder at a time to Share-to-everyone.

Evo competition continues for X (say 24 ?) hours, scoring as before (with merged soloists in!), but …

if your high score is a successful evo of a share-to-everyone not from your group you pay a "tax" in evo points to that folder of Y (say 7% ?). Loading a share-to-everyone not in your group at all you pay a "tax" of Z (== 3% ?) to the creator of the share you loaded-as-guide whatever happens after.

If highest group score was taxed, group pays tax to group of folder that received tax with same percentage; charge goes to charity if the download was from an independent ;-)