flickering display gives me vertigo and migraines!

Started by doclynn

doclynn Lv 1

hello all – I find foldit endlessly fascinating, and, well, I'm probably spending too much time playing it… but here's the problem: I'm finding that the way the display flickers while it's wiggling is doing odd things to my central nervous system. On my big monitor it seems to be able to trigger migraines, and on the netbook it can give me attacks of vertigo! Pretty weird. I am prone to both migraines and inner-ear problems, but I can definitely identify that flickering display as one of the triggers.

For now I'm trying very, very hard to just stay away from the game. Wish there was a way to turn off the flicker…

don't know if anyone else has had this problem, just wanted to mention it, cheers, Lynn Hall (doclynn)

Steven Pletsch Lv 1

Lynn…
Try running FoldIt in a window, rather than full screen. Hit the little box between the _ and X in the upper right, and stretch FoldIt so that it only takes up about 95% - 99% of the screen, you can still have it big, but don't maximize it. This can help a lot for some programs. Also, suspend or close anything else running in the background that is taking a large share of video resources.

If you are still having problems…
Are you running Windows 7 ?
also, are you running any other tasks at the same time which use a lot of your video memory ?
and finally, do you know what video card/chipset you are using ?

Anyone else that may be interested,
will try to keep it mostly non-technical…
I have seen this problem with Win7 a lot now. They made changes to the driver stack (how video gets from your program to your video card, to your monitor) now such that no program can obtain exclusive lock on video resources. This has some advantages, and also some disadvantages. After reading through MS's analysis, reasoning, and implementations, I'm rather disappointed in this, but see why they did it. Essentially, the collected a lot of data from windows crash events (the little box that pops up and asks 'would you like to report this to MS' every time something goes wrong.) So what they found is that more often than not, when a program ceased responding, it was because it was waiting for video resources from another program that had an exclusive lock on those resources. So in order to offer a more user friendly experience, and in order to cater to now more prevalent multi-core processors, they have rewritten how drivers work, and allowed multiple programs to use resources. This has some improvements, such as response time for a windows when multi-tasking, and should eliminate a lot of programs "hanging". In theory it should also show improvements in how things are displayed. In practice however, the improvements are marginal or non-existent, and in fact what I have been seeing more often, is that tasks which are GPU intensive, but not in the foreground are hogging video resources and causing "flicker" in other programs such as FoldIt. I've seen this with BOINC and Folding@Home applications which make use of video cards for data processing. I have also seen this when running multiple GPU intensive programs at once. In XP and Vista, you could simply move one Window behind another, and the one in front would speed up, but with Win 7, it drags all programs down :/ They have also eliminated the "mirror" image of the video data that used to be stored in RAM, so as to free up more resources.

Some good, some bad aspects to the new way, but mostly depends on what you are doing, as to whether or not it will interfere with you. Even with 432 shading processors, and 1.7GB of video memory, Foldit will flicker for me if I run more than a couple GPU intensive programs in Win 7. With XP I could run 6-8 with no hit to performance, but with Win7 I notice it as soon as I open 2 or more programs that rely heavily on the video cards.

doclynn Lv 1

Thanks for your comment…. I realized I should have been more precise about the visual triggers that seem to be the problem: one problem is the graphic in the upper left corner that circles the red "stop" button during a wiggle or tweak. The grayscale "train tracks" that run around and around the edge seem to be a problem for me. And alas, it doesn't get smaller when you make the window smaller.

The other issue is the light/dark shifting that happens on the protein itself as it wiggles or whatever.

These are both ways for the program to tell me it's working on something… so I think it's a part of the display, not a computer problem. I'm using (mostly) an Asus netbook with an Atom chip, running Win XP.

I just wish I could turn off that part of the display!

thanks again, cheers, Lynn

aloofmonkey Lv 1

doclynn:
Thanks a lot for the feedback. We were not aware of such effects on our players and this is really helpful. We'll try to incorporate some ways to reduce these disturbances and flickerings. Just to help our design process:

  • Would you personally prefer the removal of features like these or maybe a change to graphics that are less visually alternating?
    Also, our apologies for the migraines and the vertigo. We had not anticipated such effects and we're really glad that you brought these to our attention

Steven Pletsch:
Thanks for the info. Distinguishing between the game's bugs and just general hardware issues is really a
concern for us.

We appreciate the feedback.

LennStar Lv 1

"The other issue is the light/dark shifting that happens on the protein itself as it wiggles or whatever. "
Tried color blind mode?
That uses other colors, perhaps you feel better with them.

doclynn Lv 1

Thanks so much for for the reply – I've discovered I can reduce the "flicker dizziness" by putting an opaque piece of paper over that spinning circle in the upper left corner.

I'm one of those people who can get migraines from flickering fluorescent bulbs, and sometimes even from sunlight flickering through trees when I'm in a car, so this is clearly just something I'm sensitive to. (Remember a few years back when there was a Japanese kid's show that could apparently trigger seizures? That was also apparently related to a rapidly flickering display.)

I would love it if there were an option to simply turn off the flickery motion and leave a static reminder that the program is working. I'm also going to check what the refresh rate is on the screen on my netbook, because the effect is so much more pronounced on it versus my desktop monitor.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. If foldit weren't so addictive, I could just quit playing it… but I really enjoy it!

aloofmonkey Lv 1

LennStar:
Thanks for helping out.

doclynn:
I'm glad you've found a way to reduce these effects. This issue is a concern for us and we're trying to add a feature where we can remove all additional animation. Hopefully, that will help.

ChristianK:
I replied individually to your blog post. Hope it helps.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

doclynn Lv 1

hi all – just wanted to let you know the best current theory is that my vertigo is migraine-related, which means I really do have to stay away from any of my known migraine triggers – including, for now, fold.it. I'm hoping to be able to come back after we get this under control, but for now I'm minimizing my computer use, and am totally off my beloved fold.it. I'll keep checking for the display changes in the future, and keep working with my docs to get this under control, but so long for now… Lynn

Steven Pletsch Lv 1

I've heard good things about a particular product from a friend that has similar problems with eye strain, migraines, and sensitivity to fluorescent lights, or computer screens. Basically they are a pair of glasses that you wear while doing things that would normally be bothersome.

I doubt they would help with everything, but they might be worth considering for those with such sensitivity.

Here is some information about them from the manufacturer:

Gunnar i-Amp

The range in price from ~$100 to ~$140

Available on NewEgg