Well, I tried to make my position as clear as possible in my original post. It seems that some who have responded understood my point exactly… others didn't. For the benefit of those who believe that this is about points and ranks, please let me clarify.
I started in foldit as a single player. It was my intention to remain a single player. In getting to know a few of the other players through group chat, a question arose as to whether or not some of the 'lone players' who had no background in these sciences could form a group that could competitively match some of the "professional lab groups" in folding and scoring. I was willing to see if that was a possibility. It seemed to me that utilizing both professionals and amateurs in this way could only enhance the information for which this project was developed. The best of both worlds!
I was EAGERLY looking forward to the solution-sharing capability for the groups. I felt that with us all being able to work together on the proteins there was an immense possibility of huge and unexpected amounts of further data for the project. It was an exciting premise and I was ready and waiting to "go to work". Upon my very first viewing of one of my group-mate's proteins, I noticed that it jumped my rank in PERSONAL play significantly and would not allow me to return to my own rank in PERSONAL play.
It is my own code - for ME - (no better or worse than anyone else's) that I make my way on what I have earned, not by riding on the shirt-tails of someone else or stepping over the backs of others who did not have the same chance or advantage that I did. I found it very disturbing that ONLY because I had viewed someone else's work, and totally without the knowlege that it would happen, I had suddenly risen over 100 points and 50 ranks above people who were working alone to fold the proteins. For that reason, I have not viewed any other work from my group members, therefore voluntarily - but with great concern for the lost possibilities - excluding myself from true group play on the current puzzles.
Foldit has been such a delightful experience up until now. The total support and comraderie in the chat room for beginners and for experienced players has been refreshing and helpful. There has been a very light and mellow attitude about sharing tips and designs and all seemed to be working together for the good of the project. AND, it has been great fun to compete against one another for scores and ranks, congratulating one another for each and every hard-earned point and playfully bashing one another when we are passed by someone else. We were all in it together and I have continued to be surprised and proud of the intense work and the hundreds (probably thousands now) of hours that people have put in for the sake of science AND for the sake of the game.
I did not hear a single complaint - not a one - when those of us who are now more experienced players signed in one day and found that we had been locked out of the beginner puzzles. We understood the reasoning on this - that the newer players needed to have a place to play and learn where they had an expectation of doing well based on their time and efforts, not being automatically trounced by people who had been playing much longer than they had. Obviously, the developers realized that this was a more equitable and productive way for everyone to compete at their own playing level or they wouldn't have made that change.
It seems to me that we are dealing with the exact same concept when addressing shared solutions and group play and their affect on personal scores. In a comment either on this thread or on the "swords and guns" thread, someone stated that the groups were 'small' entities that had banded together for better folding, or something to that effect. I am certain that that is the way it started out; however, if you will look at some of the group rosters, some of them contain 50, 75, or 100 people. There is NO possibility whatsoever for a single individual to compete against 68 people when those 68 are able to share and improve upon one another's work.
For those who are saying that it is for science only and it's not about the points so "why even worry about this?", I feel that you are either missing or neglecting the very strong part of human nature which seeks positive feedback and success. The point has been made that nobody is being paid for this work. Part of the reward in addition to our genuine desire to contribute to scientific knowlege is to see how well we can do in this project and to see how we are doing within a larger number of our peers from all over the world.
It is NOT "all about the points" but the points and ranks are, in a way, a source of "payment" for the very, very hard work that we are doing for the sake of science. For many of us who have given so freely both in time and effort on folding and time and effort in chat helping other players, it came as a shock and disappointment that we were playing against unknown advantages and tools for other players.
I am VERY excited about the possibility of a rebuild tool. I am happy that it is being tested because the faster it is tested, the faster we will have it. (Hooray!!!) However, it should have been tested WITHOUT the ability to effect scores in competition play. The same goes for shared solutions. They are a WONDERFUL resource for group play, but most definitely NOT fair in personal play.
For those of you who have written in and indicated that we who feel this way are just talking "sour grapes" and/or just worried about our scores and ranks, PLEASE go back and read again what we have written. It is NOT about the scores… it is about a PRINCIPLE: an "expectation of fairness" (a phrase borrowed from another foldit player) - a level playing field for ALL, not just for groups or folks who are testing new tools. For me, it's not the fact that, every time I sign in now, I have lost 20 ranks to group play, it is that the work I am doing seems futile and wasted compared to professional lab groups or new tools that are being tested. My time is more precious to me than to spend it feeling that I am merely struggling over a period of hours to reproduce work that a group has done in significantly less time.
I have a busy life. I have many more things to do that are much more important to my personal life than folding. I spend the time that I do in folding because it is important for the betterment of all people AND because it is fun. I have tried to be respectful and understanding of the opinions of those who feel that "all is fair so use whatever you can to get ahead". I would hope that you will be respectful of my opinions as well.
Benj, a personal note to you: You sort of got caught in the middle of all this by accident, I believe. That has concerned me greatly, particularly with you being so young. Twice in chat, I have told you very clearly that this is in NO way personal, that I have nothing against you, and that I am not in any way making any personal comments about you. I hope you will believe that. You are still very young. You see the world very differently than some of us older folks do. We saw the world very differently when we were your age, too. That's the way it works - that's the way it is supposed to be! I would offer to you that this can be a wonderful learning experience for you if you will allow it to be. Read and re-read what has been written about all of this, both the ones that agree with you and - most especially - the ones who do NOT agree with you. This is a perfect microcosm of 'the real world'. Learning how to share differing opinions in a respectful way can be invaluable to you as you age and venture further and further into situations that require cooperation and compromise. I hope you haven't been hurt by any of this. That would break my heart. I hope that you - and ALL OF US - can learn from it regardless of whether we are in agreement about it or not.
Folders and developers, I've explained where I'm coming from as well as I know how to. I am trying to regain my earlier excitement for the project and my willingness to "lose sleep for the further enrichment of personkind" (smile). I hope we can come to some "fix" on this that will allow everyone on both sides of this issue to feel that they have been heard and understood.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. Best of luck in your folding!
champuli
