This feedback is a general consensus of a conversation in the veteran's chat room.
We all understand how important accuracy is in our game client, and applaud dev efforts to bring us a better client.
Right now, though, NC is simply not ready for prime time. The update just posted to devprev was very anticipated as we all hoped that it would solve one of the biggest bugs, rebuild. Unfortunately it has actually made rebuild worse, if anything (http://fold.it/portal/node/996667).
The community has tried very hard this past week to make this work… but there are too many major bugs and hurdles. Some players are bouncing in & out waiting for a playable client. Some have rage quit. Most have done their best by playing, trying to adapt scripts, trying to find ways to make the software do what it used to do easily.
However - most feel that the fun is completely gone. The new game is barely playable, and not at all enjoyable for many.
There was a proposal in this conversation that the following be done:
Roll back the Main client.
Keep NC in it's own update group until all the major bugs are gone (that would include the script hooks for the wiggle levels, and anything else missing for scripts to be able to work again).
Allow us to use both clients until we can tell you that NC is both playable and enjoyable. This would also allow devs to see if the new accuracy really will work well.
I hope the developers learned a lesson from a prior major update (hello, wiggle sliders!), and will do the right thing this time to prevent another mass exodus of players, as happened with that update.
That update was rolled back, and the idea was abandoned. Most of the players who left never came back.
I'm not suggesting to abandon the ideas presented in NC. We need a more accurate scoring system. I think the current update needs to be recalled and THOROUGHLY tested outside of game play, before it is made the law of the land. A few weeks is not enough time to test for all the quirks that could happen with that radical a change.
So sorry NC probably won't be ready for CASP, but quality over quantity, please.
I am third'ing this motion. Too many bugs in current NC client. It needs more work.
I agree that there was not enough time to test newchapter, and for fixes to be put in and tested in turn. When fixing a tool causes it to malfunction even worse, that suggests that the new client is really not ready for production. Relying on fixes being put in while it is in production seems a bad idea for now, given that the development cycle as it currently exists did not uncover some rather glaring defects before they were released. The new devprev client is unplayable in my opinion; I have gone back to main. I hope at least the latest update will be rolled back. Even better to roll back the entire newchapter, so that rebuild could be fixed and player tested as many times as necessary to come up with something playable in competition.
The players really want newchapter to work; we have been trying all kinds of new and old tricks to try to make it workable, and sharing the results in chat. This on top of the testing and publishing of info that we did before newchapter was released. People have been asking all weekend if the update was out yet, wanting to try the improved rebuild. It was a huge letdown to discover it was broken right out of the box.
I know trying to work within the current structure while still adding updates can be challenging. At this time with such a major update, it's time to just hold what you have and try to redo the foldit code from the ground up instead of this patchwork it currently is. With this big of a change you need to redo the engine to suit your needs not just re-purpose whats there. Its the difference between an old car with different doors, a bent in bumper, slightly odd noise from the engine and a new car. they both work, one just works better and looks nicer(albeit more expensive)
If you expect people to take this more seriously you need quicker response times, and better support. thoroughly test your code in game in as many situations as possible looking for what it should do vs what its doing and actually know what the game is supposed to do from a player perspective.
With puzzle 841, Denovo Round 2 and Round 1 before it, I tried as best as I could to create a helix where the given structure suggested one, without success. I couldn't create the helix no matter what I tried. Rebuild simply would not move the thing. Banding was clumsy and stupid. I came up with using the Tweak Straighten tool to create the helix, again without success. That attempt began well, but halfway through morphed into something ugly and grotesque.
Without the ability to create this helix there doesn't seem like much purpose in continuing with the puzzle. My score is currently -30,000. I'm used to creating a helix by making the required segments into helices and using the rebuild tool. That doesn't work at all.
I finally tried banding every fourth segment in the hopes that I could muscle my way to a helix. Nope. Nada. Annihilation. Crumbs. Diddily. Scratch. Zero. Zilch. Zippo. Goose-eggs. Nothing.
Attached is a screenshot showing a loop with an extreme acute dihedral angle produced by rebuild in dev_prev.
Most of the loop is obscured by a helix in the foreground.
I just happened to quickly catch it during a tvdl drw run.
The area is highlighted in a circle.
-Randy
Would it be possible to ONLY use the new scoring function but keep all the tools the same as they were before NC. Maybe that would solve some of the problems and allow a smoother changeover.
I will echo most of the sentiments above. After 5 1/2 years of this, you (the developers) have managed to drag all the fun out of this game. I wasn't paying attention during the runup to this release due to real world commitments, and it was quit a shock when first trying a new puzzle with this present client.
Handfolding didn't react at all the same, and most of the collection of recipes didn't seem to have much of an effect at all. I couldn't get into the top 100 on an easy puzzle like 839 using any of my regular tools and methods, and if I hadn't caught some some chatter about Idealize would be even further down.
Unless this changes back, I'm afraid my career here has come to an end.
Even if everything else worked perfectly, I would still be unhappy with NC due to the constant client deaths. Whether it be death by wiggle power (particularly high) or death during scripts, there are far, far too many of them. It was suggested that the problem with death by wiggle power was fixed with the 1-26-2014 build, but it wasn't.
It was suggested that the scripting issued was successfully duplicated and passed along to the devs circa 1-29-2014. The only update since then was yesterday and after hearing that rebuild was worse than before, I wasn't about to update to the newer version–so I don't know if either has been fixed yet.
The above is from my feedbacks: http://fold.it/portal/node/996704
As stated in the feedback, I have scaled back on the number of clients I am running as compared to pre-NC.
Although I have no problem creating or re-curling helices (cut points on both ends and allowing the straighten tool to run until it stops on its own), the complaint that it doesn't work with Rebuild is both valid and an important issue.
If these problems can't be resolved quickly, I don't see how using it for CASP is going to be an option–at least not a successful one. Keep in mind that even if these client problems are resolved before CASP starts, the end users still needs time to adjust their play styles and scipters will have to adjust and test their scripts thoroughly for all puzzle categories. I think that the devs are severely underestimating the magnitude of adjustments necessary for the players and scripters–either that or they are not duly concerned about it. I hope it's the former.
The current patch put out yesterday should be rolled back until rebuild functions better than it currently does. I am all for running NC separately from both main and devprev as it did prior to 1-26 until the major problems are solved (and confirmed by the players).
