" IMHO, this is the single worst "bug" affecting us now. Less clients means less options, both for testing and learning now - less clients means that many solutions will be left on the table during CASP. "
This. A thousand hail AuntD's.
Players complaining about overheating issues are not saying that the software has changed into a demon burning up their hardware from the inside; they are complaining because their systems should not be overheating (aka being thís stressed) while running what they are, be that 2 or 47 clients.
You may not be able to control overheating issues, ofcourse you can't; but you should be putting effort into slimming the software down. Is it still not clear that this is not only due to NC? At some point foldit became heavier to run, resulting in less clients for those who were used to running a bunch of them; then NC came and this issue became even more dramatic, causing loads of players to just kinda forfeit. I say forfeit because actually enjoying this game has become somewhat of an uphill battle; resulting in the massive drop of active players.
Software can easily damage hardware:
This was a recent firmware attack where they set fire to a Mac OS X: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2014/022614-rsa-apple-attack-279212.html
This is slightly older but still relevant:
http://www.serverwatch.com/tutorials/article.php/3936741/Stop-Software-Attacks-From-Destroying-Your-Servers.htm
From the article:
Some simple ways that malicious software can damage your server hardware include:
Overclocking
Overvolting
Overusing (mechanical)
Overusing (electronic)
Overcycling
Stuxnet was software
Firmware is different from software. It generally requires elevated privileges to access.
I am not arguing that software cannot damage hardware. There are security holes in the operating system that can make that possible. I'm saying that the responsibility for keeping the system cool does not belong to the client programs. We're just using the CPU. We don't know what will overheat your machine. It is up to the hardware manufactures and operating system.
So the bottom line here is that the devs are not even working on slimming the client down so that the players can run more clients without overheating, or considering working on it?
We've all made it crystal clear that the program is now too bloated for most of our computers, starting when you introduced the filters, and dramatically increasing with NC.
Apple has this to say about CPU usage: "If any process is taking more than 70% of the CPU … it is considered to be putting a significant load on the system." Atm, I have two clients running on the Handfold puzzle, running a simple GUI script on each… one is at 165.9% and the other at 151.8%.
The majority of us are in no position to go out and buy a hot new top of the line computer for foldit.
I'm a little perplexed at why the devs do not see a problem here. Not only are you reducing the number of players, you have effectively reduced the number of clients those remaining players can run. You have also raised the bar so high that new vets will be almost unattainable.
What happened to the "human factor"? Now you only want "human factor" if it comes with the top of the line computer??
Please don't kid yourselves that those of us who can't run many clients will be content to fuss around by hand with a puzzle without trying to see if we can score with it, too. We are all a little unusual here, but part of our enjoyment is the competition.
And it personally leaves me wondering whether it's even worth it anymore. Four clients running was adequate for CASP for me. Two simply isn't - and I am unsure if the frustration of playing only 2 puzzles at a time in the CASP madness is a reasonable way for me to spend my time and computer resources.
At some time in the distant past, the biologists and game designers addressed the question, "How do we slim Rosetta down enough to run in real time on the desktop, so it can be interactive?" For several years this slimming effort was successful. During that time, veteran players discovered that they wanted to use the scripting capabilities to explore multiple solutions simultaneously, or multiple puzzles simultaneously. The game developers have never explicitly supported multiple clients, but the biologists have benefited from it because more human-generated solutions were explored, and the players have come to depend on it for their fun and motivation. Now the players are giving you the feedback that the game is no longer slim enough to run multiple clients on the desktop. This reduces the machine-hours and person-hours spent on each puzzle, and reduces the number of starting models that can be explored during CASP. It also reduces the fun factor and motivation of many experienced players.
The devs may be seeing that the number of players to open each puzzle has not gone down, but the players are seeing that the number of people all day and evening in global and vet chat is way down, which means less time is being spent on each puzzle by the people who open it. One person logged into chat may represent one client open or four clients open, or more. When that person has zero chat logins rather than one, it may be a loss of one client pushing one solution to the best score it can reach, or of several clients pushing several solutions to their best scores. Many more solutions are remaining "unpushed," meaning the improved scoring algorithm will not have a chance to select them even if they are the best ones.
Rather than saying "that is not our problem," perhaps you could take the approach of "We don't have a solution for this right now, but we will discuss the possibility of slimming down the client again and see if it is feasible." That at least would give us some hope, and let us feel heard. Or you could come right out and say "We are not planning to work on slimming down the client," if that is the case. Just please don't say "not our problem."
Agree Angus, I almost burnt out a high end laptop during CASP 9, with added mutating design puzzles thrown in. Entirely my own fault of course.
I agree that foldit is not responsible for looking after my hardware although I fully expect not to get any malicious code.
I assumed the highend laptop would protect itself, which it now does by shutting down, it survived and improved for nearly 9 months after one professional clean and re-application of thermal paste. The second clean and re-paste did nothing and it slowed right down again, still ok for email and browsing.
At least these posts will indicate to folders who may not be aware of it that prolonged heat over many days will seriously damage their computers especially laptops.
If you cruise the Overclockers folding forums, players who run 24x7 are all running water cooled desktops or workstations because you get far more grunt and associated cooling for a lot less money than a laptop.
I think we all need to cool down:
Jflat was only addressing the issue of overheating. NOT the fact that the clients are hogging extra resources. Is that still an issue? Yep. Should that still be addressed? Sure. Has that already been addressed? Nope.
So:
Players-Stop flaming Jflat about something he never touched on.
Devs: Please work on getting our clients to a state where they no longer hog as much resources as they do now (meaning we're not just seeing a small increase, but seemingly about double).
Oh, yeah:
Flame wars will get nobody anywhere. That's what actual communication and working to get the problem fixed is for.
This is about the worst feedback I have read since I joined Foldit.
Temperature of core is the business of the operating system. Period. Exclamtion point.
If game "upgrades" make it too difficult for the average person to play it becomes the business of the developers if they want players.
I run a workstation class laptop and am now down to only two clients due to overheating. My CPU and RAM usage is only 28% and 30%, but, my temperature is still in the high 70's. Whatever changes the developers are making to cause this is something they need to look at closely. Foldit is the only application that makes my computer run hot. And, it never used to run hot before the introduction of the filters. Since new chapter it's taken it higher again in temp.
Higher temps are clearly due to a change in the foldit client since this wasn't an issue before the introduction of filters.
New instructions? Optimization for speed? Whatever they have done, the majority of players are having a problem. This feedback is making it obvious.
